A Conversation with Yoshua Okón
by Habitus · 08/26/10
In the late 1990s, a group of young artists transformed the Mexico City art scene and drew international attention to a city that had previously been considered an obscure outpost of contemporary visual culture. Yoshua Okón, one of the defining personalities of that moment, embodied its spirit with video and installations that were impolite, funny, and inflammatory. His seminal works aimed squarely at his society’s hypocrisies, excesses, and human spectacles. Now an internationally known artist who creates and exhibits work all over the world, Okón lives in Los Angeles and Mexico City. He spoke to Habitus from his home in the Condesa neighborhood, where he has spent most of his life.
Habitus: Growing up in Mexico City can mean so many different things and represent so many different worlds that don’t often intersect. Can you tell me a bit about the version of Mexico City that you knew growing up?
Okón: It’s a good way to describe the city and Mexico, as a whole. I’m very grateful to have grown up here; it’s a very complex place that doesn’t allow you to ignore the multiple realities and experiences. It’s a very in-your-face place that doesn’t allow you to live under many illusions.
I grew up in Colonia Condesa, where I still live today. It’s a neighborhood that was historically full of immigrants, so the cosmopolitan dimension of Mexico City is very strong here. It’s also a neighborhood with a very active street life. The old urban planning has survived here; it has a very human scale with lots of parks and green space and small businesses. You interact a lot with other people. This kind of neighborhood puts you in touch with the city’s many realities. As a child I would hang out in the parks and I got to meet an amazing variety of people: recent immigrants, working class, middle class, various races.
My work is very much socially oriented and that definitely comes from my experience growing up in the city and, specifically, in Condesa.
Was there a particular time in your life that you became aware of the city’s violence and corruption and social divisions—all the things that would become central to your art?
That was something I saw almost from the beginning. I don’t think it is particular to Mexico. I lived the in the U.S. for eight years and I would dare say that, in many ways, it’s a much more corrupt society. The difference is that there you have very sophisticated mechanisms that make people feel they are living in a fair society. To me it is, in many ways, much more ruthless. Here, the corruption is far more naked.
You might be best known for a piece in which you paid local policemen to act out in front of your camera. They dance, sing, gesture obscenely, shout. Can you say a little about how the material was gathered?
My experience with the police in Mexico City is very much love-hate. They are so cynical and corrupt but they are also amazing actors. At the end, you know they just want your money and they know it, too. But there is a theatricality to it that I have always hated and always loved. I thought: these guys are so creative and such skillful performers, why not use them as actors? These guys will make you laugh but you will feel highly uncomfortable at the same time.
There is something obviously cynical in the act but, at the same time, there is something that’s also very tender about they way they perform for you.
Exactly. There is something very human and down-to-earth about the way they behave but of course it is also cynical.
I’m interested in the relationship between orchestration and improvisation in this kind of work. How do you find the right level of intervention for a given situation?
Well, I guess that is part of my art. For me making artwork has a lot to do with my curiosity about the world. It is a great way to rethink the way I understand the world and to challenge the viewer. I think we often live mostly by stereotypes. This work is a way of bringing a little distance from everyday life.
It would be very boring for me to come up with a script, or answers, before I create the piece. That’s where performance comes in. I basically set up very simple parameters—the rules of the game that speak for themselves. Reality is always surprising me; most things that happen could have never come from a script.
You encourage people to see themselves and their place in society with humor. There is something kind of democratic in the use of humor in your work, which creates a kind of relationship of equality between the subjects and the audience, who may not be on equal footing in society at large.
I think humor is an incredible useful tool for gaining distance from ourselves. When we laugh, we are more able to see ourselves from the outside. My works are as much about the viewer as the subjects being portrayed. Humor allows viewers to become implicated in the work. Once you are laughing, you are already implicated. A mixture of humor and discomfort can be very powerful.
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